beck wrote: ↑2021-11-08 04:05
Your last comparison is to my ears so close that I for a moment was wondering if it was the same system playing twice.......
After listening to the clips I wondered the same thing. The differences I hear live are diminished in the recordings, which makes me suspect that those differences are of the hifi variety and that the two sources are quite close musically.
Scooter62 wrote: ↑2021-11-08 05:04
The only thought I have regarding the LP12 setup is how close is it running to absolute 33.33 rpm? Sometimes I notice a similar difference in subtle performer tempo variations when playing a cd vs lp of the same recording? Just my two cents
I don't know! I'm guessing it is as nothing has changed since the speed was last calibrated, but that was in 2008. I do have the Linn speed calibration disc but I don't have the correct 300Hz strobe it requires.
Lego wrote: ↑2021-11-08 10:14
Thanks for clips Mi8 ,well worth the wait.!!!That opening trumpet almost blew my head off .
Both systems sound brilliant,but if you were to turn amps & speakers back to hard cash ,it's a no brainer which set I'd be buying.This is a game changer .
That's a great point, Lego, and one that is important to keep in mind: the 308P is not the most musical speaker out there, but it's close. What makes them a game changer is that they get as close as they do and they're
cheap! I wouldn't be surprised if, with the right modifications and better amplification, the Omens could out tune the JBLs. But at what cost? The JBLs are awesome because they gave me a genuine musical improvement while freeing up cash (with the sale of the Omens and Klout) to invest in musical improvements further upstream where they really count. I just wish they were better looking.
lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-11-08 13:47
I just re-listened to your two clips Before and After, markiteight. This time using headphones instead of terrible computer speakers. And I have changed my mind. I prefer After.
The JBL clip is interesting in that it makes the Zu sound so much "loudspeaker". I find the JBLs more musically expressive and involving.
What do you think?
I think the recordings don't to the JBLs justice. That they're musically superior to the Omens is clear, but the degree to which they show the Zus their heels is not apparent in the clips. Your description of the Zus sounding 'so much "loudspeaker"' is a very accurate assessment of the difference, and up until the JBLs came along the Omens were the least 'loudspeaker' loudspeakers I had experienced. That's one helluva accomplishment for a digitally processed, Class D amplified, cheap studio monitor!
teatime wrote: ↑2021-11-08 15:09
The JBLs just aren't happening for me. Maybe it's because that clip is lower in volume (it is, right? or am I imagining that?) or maybe it's my failing hearing, but with the Zu's I feel the voice harmonizes with the band. With the JBLs the voice sort of replaces the band, as if the amp/speaker combo is less able to reproduce both at the same time. Also, to me, the band comes off as less rhythmically precise with the JBLs, and rather than involving I actually find the JBL clip rather boring to listen to. (But that might be because I've repeated it too many times by now...)
It's possible there's a slight volume difference. Despite being self powered the JBLs are less sensitive than the Omens so some volume adjustment was necessary. Compared to the JBLs the Omens do some Naim-like trickery to draw the listener into the music. There seems to be more emphasis on the leading edge of musical notes which exaggerates the portrayal of timing and gives a more exciting presentation. The JBLs are content to let the natural pace of the music shine through, and while this makes them initially sound dull and maybe even a bit slow, it doesn't take long to realize they're musically superior.
tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-08 15:53
I found this challenging, not least because there are 3+ comparisons going on:
In retrospect I probably should have held off on the 2nd pair of clips 'till people had a chance to process the Omen/JBL pair. Sorry 'bout that.
tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-08 15:53
I have to admit to liking floorstanders - I have always struggled a bit with standmount speakers... Before anyone says: yes, I know the 3677s are standmount, technically
Yeah I hear 'ya. I too struggled with that mindset while deciding whether or not to give the JBLs a punt. After enjoying the Omens and becoming accustom to their bass performance (which is really quite good for a speaker at their price point), did I really want to go back to a stand mount? Could I really live with sacrificing the floor stander's bass performance for some musical gain? I needn't have worried. In terms of quantity the JBLs actually have
more bass, so much so that I'm struggling a bit to tame it all. 'What about extension,' you ask? Subjectively the JBLs dig a bit deeper, but they're pretty close. So from a sonic perspective the JBLs leave me with no lingering desire for a bigger box. But that's all a moot point. The JBLs just do bass right. And I mean that from a musical stand point. The Omens emphasize transients, giving the impression of "faster" bass and seemingly doing a better job propelling the music along. But after experiencing the JBL brand of bass I realize that this is a sonic exaggeration.
This all came as quite a surprise to me. Similar to your bias against stand mounts, I have a bias against ported loudspeakers. I just never heard a hole-in-the-box speaker that could fart out a tune better than a sealed box...until the JBLs came along. Digital processing, Class D amps, horn loaded tweeter (another bias of mine), stand mount,
and a fart tube?! What the JBLs are, are the epitome of a paradox...in a convenient one box solution.
tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-08 15:53
Back to the tune, and no this isn't fence sitting: I thought they all sounded good, but I struggled to pick better/worse, and was confused that there was less between them musically, for me, than I expected. That goes for the LP12 - Hakai clips too, so not sure that you should pay any notice or mind to my post. (you're free to ignore, as always ;)
I'm back to wondering if, as some others have suggested, the recording device is at least partially to blame for the somewhat ambiguous nature of my clips. It's a 7 year old iPhone, after all! Who knows how much schmutz is gumming up the microphones. I might try re-examining my much newer iPad as a recording device (the Simon and Garfunkel clip I posted earlier was recorded with the iPad).
FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-11-08 17:12
The 3677 and the 308P are both thought by many to be lacking in the low frequency department, hence why subwoofers are recommended for the 308P and are/were used by 3677 owners. Adding to the low frequencies isn't the only improvement one might gain by adding a subwoofer.
From whom did you hear that the 308P is lacking in the low frequency department? They most certainly aren't! Jajo said he upgraded to the 708P because they play louder. The 308P does have its volume limitations (although in my experience in my small room those limitations are quite high). The Omens can play a lot louder too, but I suspect that's mostly down to the robustness of the amplification. Adding a 310 (or two) would probably mitigate most of the 308's output limitations, but for me the allure of the 310 is the ability to
reduce the quantity of bass. An extra half-ish octave of bass wouldn't be unwelcome either.
tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-08 17:41
Assuming mi8 didn’t sneak an LSR 310 sub into his system w/out telling us ;)
Naw...I wouldn't do that to you...would I? ;)
Besides, the LP12 would have to go on walkabout in order to accommodate a sub. I just don't have the space!
beck wrote: ↑2021-11-08 21:41
I hope we can all agree that we are not here to rectify each others hearing but to state what we personally hear, think and like. Then others can agree or disagree and hopefully we all will gain some knowledge.
I think that should be a pretty easy agreement to make! I personally appreciate and value each and every opinion you all have graciously taken the time and effort to give. With every post comes a new perspective and a new bit if feedback I would have otherwise never considered. I learn and grow from all of you. Thank you!!!