Direction of internal cables

Post by **lejonklou** » 2007-03-22 22:42

I have some good news for all Linn enthusiasts:

It seems Linn have started to pay attention to the direction of their internal cabling. In the latest Unidisks, the cables from the power supply is now marked with direction and inserted correctly. These used to be oriented randomly.

After having informed them of details like this for more than 10 years without getting any kind of response (other than "that's not important"), I eventually gave up a few years back. It felt as if the reason behind their attitude was NIH. Not Invented Here.

If that attitude has changed it would be fantastic.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2007-03-23 10:35

YES YES YES :D
Have you seen the same in other products?

paolo · Post by **paolo** » 2007-03-23 13:36

Fantastic to know this Fredrik!

Some internal cablings - those equipped with connectors- can in case be optimized for direction by the user, given he knows what to do.
But there are cables which are very difficoult to change direction if they're installed wrongly by the factory, I'm thinking about any soldered cables (speakers, internal speakers' inside Klimax amps, etc). I think it'll be a big step towards best and more uniform performance if Linn will really optimise directions of internal cabling in all their products!

The attention to "particulars" once was a distinctive trait of Linn, let's hope they've recovered this very good attitude!

Paolo

per · Post by **per** » 2007-03-23 13:56

Would these new internal cables marked with direction be retro fittable? Maybe they can be ordered as spare parts?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2007-03-23 14:48

Music Lover: No, only seen it in a Unidisk 1.1 so far.

Paolo: I think Linn is probably still one of the most fanatic companies in the world when it comes to 'Attention to detail'. It seems, though, that they have purposely decided to leave some things out. To save time perhaps?

per: I haven't noticed any new cables. It was the same 10-way internal cable as before, just marked for directionality in one end. I sincerely hope it wasn't a freak thing!

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2007-03-23 17:57

This would indeed be good news as it really is how it should be. I just went through my system last week to check the directionality and I found that one of my Lintos was correct and the other was wrong (I have two - one for each channel). Reversing the incorrect one definitely made an improvement. Since these Lintos are consecutive serial numbers made by the same person, and since they are only about six months old, this must be a fairly new procedure for Linn and it is to be applauded.

I also found that my Ikemi was correct but my Klimax Kontrol was reversed, and they are both a bit older than the Lintos. Interesting enough I noticed in the Ikemi that all the ribbon cables were oriented in the direction of signal flow so Linn did pay attention to the directionality of these cables.

artikulate · Post by **artikulate** » 2009-03-21 04:26

Hi,

How do you know what cable direction is the correct one---by listening only or can you tell by looking at the cable. And what cables can be changed?? Thanks!!!

Ron

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2009-03-21 10:44

I have linked the channels of my C4200 with the internal cables. How can I check the directionality of these? By tunedem?

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2009-03-21 12:09

Yes, by tune dem. It's a fiddly job and a bit time consuming, but overall worthwhile I think - as its free :) Only one of my connections were the wrong way around. The effect was perhaps not surprising in that I felt there was better balance afterwards as if something wasn't quite right before but I hadn't realised. Fractionally better musicality too.

I used an anti-static mat etc. Not sure how important this is but I didn't want to take any chances.

Do you know where the connections are? There is an old thread that details what to do (maybe this one), but haven't time to search right now.

The other mod worth doing is removing the link that goes from one side to the other - it has a protective black sleeve as I recall and is located at the back of the amp. It just ensures that both channels come on at the same time or something (Fredrik answered this as I recall - perhaps on the same thread) but has no real benefit and does degrade the sound very slightly.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-21 20:21

This is an old thread so an update is probably in order:

What was originally discussed was the internal cable from a Slimline Brilliant power supply to the main board of electronics. Linn used to put these in random direction, but later decided to colour code them: A black piece of shrink tube in one end and a red in the other. I was pleased with this, since I had switched these around in what seemed like a countless number of Linn units.

Now I fear that something has gone wrong in this great ambition to increase the level of attention to detail. Because a lot of Majik, Akurate and Klimax DS players that I have examined have had this cable inserted the wrong way...! Not really sure what goes on, but the cables are still colour coded.

A different internal cable is the twisted black and red inter-channel audio connections. These are not marked, so as Charlie says their direction need to be evaluated by ear.

And yes, do remove that link between the boards that Charlie mentions, it just makes the amp sound worse and doesn't serve much of a practical purpose (if one channel goes out of standby, it will tell all the others to do so as well, instead of each channel waking up independently).

artikulate · Post by **artikulate** » 2009-03-22 04:29

Frederick,

Before Linn started colour coding the internal cables how could you tell what the right orientation was??

Ron

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-22 18:28

By listening to both directions.

There has been quite a few different brands of these internal power cables over the years. Each model had its optimal direction, so once it was determined whether it should be connected with the text on the cable running from power supply to main board - or the other way around - one could use that instead of listening.

Sometimes no text is visible on the short piece of cable that is used. Then you have to listen.

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2009-03-24 12:12

I have tune-dem'd the internal links in the C4200 and removing the black connecting link.

I found that one of the links was probably the wrong way round. I say 'probably' because the difference I could hear was marginal. This is in marked contrast to having a speaker cable the wrong way round, where the difference was apparent as soon as the needle hit the groove.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-24 22:16

Thanks for reporting the results, Pete. I agree this is no big improvement, but still worthwhile.

These internal audio links are also twisted a number of turns. Personally, I think the amount of twisting makes a bigger difference than the direction. The optimal amount is 7,5 full turns.

In the 200W amps, there is also a 3 way and a 5 way cable between main board and input board.

The 3 way needs to evaluated by ear. No marking to go by, but it's easy to hear the difference.
The 5 way usually has text on it. The one's I've tried should be with the text running from input board to main board. But as this depends on the exact cable type, it could very well change. This cable should in my opinion not be tied down (as they sometimes are).

Usual disclaimer: Don't open the amps unless you know what you're doing, beware of live voltages, use anti static protection when handling anything inside, do it at your own risk, etc.

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2009-03-25 09:01

I am impressed by the extent to which you have investigated optimising Linn's products. :!:

I have also got an AV 5103 and Linto - is it worth reversing the direction or optimising the turns of any cables in these devices?

I will try the additional optimisations for the C4200 and report back.

Pete

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2009-03-25 15:58

Interesting.

I optimised the twists on the two black/red twisted channel interlinks to 7.5 turns. This was one whole turn more than previously. At the same time I checked the 5-way cables. 3 of the four had the text running from main board to input board rather than vice versa. One of these had no text on the outer sleeve but text on the inner insulation of one of the 5-way cables. I positioned these cables so that all had text running from input board to main board and listened to the results.

I could not say for certain that it was more tuneful - probably because of the sheer amount of fiddling between listening, but the sound did seem more engaging and atmospheric and the bass seemed more subterranean. I would say that there was more of a difference from this change compared to swapping the direction of the twisted black/red internal inter-connects.

I then tested the 3-ways. Again, the difference was not as immediate as when I swapped my speaker cable, but it was more easily identifiable than for the previous changes. As before, I could not say for certain that it was more tuneful (probably due to my unfamiliarity with tunedem), but the improvement seemed to be an extension of the previous change. One of the 3-ways was in the correct position originally because when I reversed it I lost some of what the previous changes had gained.

I'm listening to my test record as I type - I found I didn't want to turn it off :D

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2009-03-25 16:51

Glad you are getting some benefit. I like free tweaks also!

If you're in the mood for more then there is the directionality of all the fuses, both in the extension block (if you have one), each mains lead, and then inside each unit, although I find the Majik/Akurate boxes too difficult to access. The Lingo is very easy to do (there are two accessable from rear without having to remove lid) and the fuses here made the most difference to the music out of all of them.

Also, using an extension block was definitely better than separate power points (as advocated by other members) and more importantly the order in which you connect up the devices - Source closest to the socket and work backwards towards power amps being furthest away. Cheap extension blocks are better than ones with surge protection etc. The basic Masterplug one available in various places (robert dyas, focus) are the best I found and only cost about £5. Wooles did a version of this which was a fraction better, but obviously they are no longer available.

I'd say the extension block makes more difference than fuse directionality although do recommend doing your source. Thesetweaks are covered in other threads if you fancy more reading.

I've also changed my plug socket to one without on/off switches but could not hear any difference. Although, I have been reliably told that running the system of a dedicated fused spur is worthwhile, but we keep thinking of moving house, so I never get it done.

What else? You could send your interconnects to someone (like ThomasOK) to get them burned in on the Vidar machine. I've done this and would recommend it - just more tuneful.

Lastly, get yourself a torque screwdriver and tune all the fixings in your LP12 and also the speaker drivers. The later is one of the few tweaks that's also improved the sound as well as the music. The former will make a very big differnce once you've done the whole deck I think - the little I've done has already been well worthwhile. There is a recent thread on this for more info.

Have you tried using tune dem to set the arm counter weight? That's worthwhile IMO.

Can anyone else think of any other free/cheap tweaks?

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2009-03-26 14:31

Charlie, thanks v much. That lot will keep my busy for quite a while. :D