Re: Recommended network components
Posted: 2021-10-27 10:06
Yes, it matters: It sounds best when they are together in the same strip.
Yes, it matters: It sounds best when they are together in the same strip.
Image improved. Thanks again tokenbrit!lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-10-26 23:50You are correct!tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-10-26 23:38Källa 1st on the power strip, ahead of preamps?
Presumably the two power strips should be plugged into a common (duplex) outlet? I may be wrong but believe that was previous advice: network components on a separate power strip but both into a shared double socket...
I prefer preamps first and Källa second in the power strip. But that made my sketch too complicated... Some have integrated amps and then Källa should be first.
Yes, the power strips should be plugged into outlets that are close to one another.
What about powering the router?
I think that most people will have their router somewhere else, so I skipped that part.
Did that include trying an Airport Express (2nd Gen) as the WiFi-to-Ethernet device?lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-09-07 13:31 ...
We have evaluated a couple of WiFi-to-Ethernet devices, which could replace the switch. Källa would then connect to this device with a cable and the device connects to the router through WiFi. This arrangement is likely to perform worse in most networks than the use of a switch...
On a rather wild audio forum I read of one guy who'd taken your dual router approach a touch further - he had two ISPs, one for his audio and the other for his other internet needs. I tried dual routers and gained no discernible benefit. The biggest gain on the internet side for me was using fixed IP addresses.tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-10 14:57Did that include trying an Airport Express (2nd Gen) as the WiFi-to-Ethernet device?lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-09-07 13:31 ...
We have evaluated a couple of WiFi-to-Ethernet devices, which could replace the switch. Källa would then connect to this device with a cable and the device connects to the router through WiFi. This arrangement is likely to perform worse in most networks than the use of a switch...
I have one that I'm trying to decide whether/how to install in my home network. Currently I have cable-modem-router-switch-hakai (wired)
I was considering dual routers to separate music from other home network traffic. Coverage is sufficient that I don't need to use the AE to extend the WiFi, but I could connect a Källa in the same way as the Hakai, or via WiFi-to-Ethernet...
The reason for asking is that the AE seems more musical than my current router, but the 802.11n & 10/100 LAN are limiting for a whole house network, and I have ltd opportunity to mess with the n/w due to VPN/WFH.
That did cross my mind for a split second, but then how do you find the most musical ISP? ;)FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-11-10 15:04On a rather wild audio forum I read of one guy who'd taken your dual router approach a touch further - he had two ISPs, one for his audio and the other for his other internet needs. I tried dual routers and gained no discernible benefit. The biggest gain on the internet side for me was using fixed IP addresses.tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-10 14:57Did that include trying an Airport Express (2nd Gen) as the WiFi-to-Ethernet device?lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-09-07 13:31 ...
We have evaluated a couple of WiFi-to-Ethernet devices, which could replace the switch. Källa would then connect to this device with a cable and the device connects to the router through WiFi. This arrangement is likely to perform worse in most networks than the use of a switch...
I have one that I'm trying to decide whether/how to install in my home network. Currently I have cable-modem-router-switch-hakai (wired)
I was considering dual routers to separate music from other home network traffic. Coverage is sufficient that I don't need to use the AE to extend the WiFi, but I could connect a Källa in the same way as the Hakai, or via WiFi-to-Ethernet...
The reason for asking is that the AE seems more musical than my current router, but the 802.11n & 10/100 LAN are limiting for a whole house network, and I have ltd opportunity to mess with the n/w due to VPN/WFH.
Finding the most musical ISP would be tricky and extremely expensive. Funding two ISPs is an expense too far for me. I never use their routers, I use higher spec ones - I've not comparison tested all the ones I own. Something for the future ;)tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-10 18:08That did cross my mind for a split second, but then how do you find the most musical ISP? ;)FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-11-10 15:04On a rather wild audio forum I read of one guy who'd taken your dual router approach a touch further - he had two ISPs, one for his audio and the other for his other internet needs. I tried dual routers and gained no discernible benefit. The biggest gain on the internet side for me was using fixed IP addresses.tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-11-10 14:57
Did that include trying an Airport Express (2nd Gen) as the WiFi-to-Ethernet device?
I have one that I'm trying to decide whether/how to install in my home network. Currently I have cable-modem-router-switch-hakai (wired)
I was considering dual routers to separate music from other home network traffic. Coverage is sufficient that I don't need to use the AE to extend the WiFi, but I could connect a Källa in the same way as the Hakai, or via WiFi-to-Ethernet...
The reason for asking is that the AE seems more musical than my current router, but the 802.11n & 10/100 LAN are limiting for a whole house network, and I have ltd opportunity to mess with the n/w due to VPN/WFH.
The only way I could see dual routers benefiting the music is if the more musical router is the primary, to get the shortest/cleanest path to the Internet, but that's based on logic rather than evidence based... AE as primary would limit the home network somewhat by reverting to 10/100 LAN even if the current wireless router as secondary would provide 802.11ac, and the other home network traffic' including VPN/WFH, would still go through the AE.
I guess it would only be if there were something in the AE over my current router, or between control point, AE, and streamer that benefited the music - it's not like the AE is needed to provide Airplay since a Källa would take care of that, and I'm not about to reconfigure the network to Airplay enable my Hakai... (IP addresses already fixed)
I realise I'm probably overthinking it (family motto: never knowingly underanalysed) but I was asking about AE as a WiFi-to-Ethernet device as much for possible musicality through network simplification - removing longer cables - as through traffic separation with dual routers (or a 2nd ISP :)
Fredrik;lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-09-07 13:31 * Källa specific parameter that can be optimized: Choice of control point.
I recommend you use an iPhone 11 as control point. The differences between control points are small and can vary between different networks, but the iPhone 11 has consistently performed the best. If you are using Spotify, you don't need to control it with the iPhone 11,
Is the power strip to the switch necessary? I am not sure, because I have also powered various NASes from that strip. But I can try powering the switch directly from the wall now, as none of my NASes are in use.Spannko wrote: ↑2021-11-21 06:06 Fredrik,
Your diagram shows the GS108 being the only item plugged into a power strip, with the power strip being plugged into the wall receptacle next to the power strip for the HiFi system.
Is the GS108’s power strip really necessary, or can the 108 be plugged directly into the wall receptacle next to the HiFi systems power strip?
Also, have you tried moving the GS108’s power connection even further away from the HiFi? Into another socket in the room, or on a separate circuit?
I assume this is also true for a wifi-to-ethernet adaptor which would have to be powered (in my case) from a complete different phase of my mains distribution than the phase which is powering my system.lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-11-21 14:30 Should the mains connection point of the switch be moved further away from the system? When I tried this in the past, the answer was no, it should be close to the system but on a separate strip. When I moved it to a wall outlet far away, the music got worse. Might have to do that test again to be certain.
I have no idea whether this powering detail is specific to the GS-108T switch. I don't understand the mechanisms behind the slight differences they produce, so the only tool I have is trial and error. And when practicing optimization by trial and error, it's important to never assume anything.
As a GS-108T switch seems to perform best in 9 networks out of 10, I recommend a GS-108T and ethernet cables in and out.
Your case is special, matthias, as you only have WiFi. I believe the only path then is trial and error.
The reason I asked is because the WiFi signal in my man cave is poor, but I do have a wired Ethernet socket in the room. Running bjc from the router to man cave is difficult, having to run about 40m (through a roof space, then outside, then back into another roof space, then into the room). The current Ethernet cable is 10m of no-name cat5e to GS108 with every port in use, then 30m of no-name cat5e to my den, and another 108. (all built-in and not upgradable). I would need a WAP in the room to control/feed Källa reliably and was hoping the current cat5e Ethernet could be used. However, thinking about it, I could possibly need the WAP and a bjc direct from the router. Fortunately, my man that does loves crawling through tight spaces …….. not!lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-11-21 20:20As a GS-108T switch seems to perform best in 9 networks out of 10, I recommend a GS-108T and ethernet cables in and out.
When cables can't be used there are a range of options and we've only tested a small amount of devices. The TP-LINK travel router was pretty good when used as a client (it converts WiFi to an ethernet cabled connection, which Källa requires). It's unlikely that a GS-108T switch should be inserted between the TP-LINK and Källa, at least it was better without the switch when we tried it. But these kind of details need be determined by trial and error in each network.
We never tried two TP-LINKs and I don't see the point in it, unless the network lacks WiFi. Creating a bridge by one device doing ethernet-to-WiFi and another doing WiFi-to-Ethernet is unlikely to be better that just connecting with cable directly. But as I mentioned before, there are exceptions, odd cases when a bridge seems to improve things.
I feel that I must point out that there is no need to fiddle and experiment with the network when you add a Källa to your system. Get a GS-108T switch, two Blue Jeans ethernet cables, connect and enjoy!
AFAIK, Kevin (macrotech2) is running a similar configuration but he uses an EtherRegen switch.Discodave wrote: ↑2021-11-21 21:32 I use 2 link plugs to fire the wifi through the mains electrical. One plug from router in hall, another plug in room with streamer, then into GT108 then into Majik DS. This is a necessity given i can't run cable every which way around the house. I never had a chance to A/B but ive never been unhappy with it.
When you say "the wall socket next to [your HiFi power strip]", do you mean another duplex outlet/socket, or do you mean where the "digital power strip" is plugged in? Putting it another way: if you're only powering the switch, do you still need the digital power strip, or can the switch be plugged into the double socket with the HiFi power strip? I'd be surprised if it were worse plugged in place of the digital power strip, but stranger things have happened...lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-11-22 20:58 I tried plugging [the 108T] directly into the wall socket next to the two power strips that feed my HiFi system. It was clearly worse. Better to have it in the first socket of my "digital power strip", that used to also feed two NASes but currently only powers the switch. So exactly as in my sketch was the most musical option.