It seems you're on to something really special here and maybe are discovering "des Pudels kern" in streaming music. Something which also would explaing the Spotify enigma. Just out of curiosity, are you throughout the evaluation using a reference setup, like a Klimax DSM, by now and then checking out that you actually have not got somewhat lost in following the track of progress in Källa?
Recommended control points
Moderator: Staff
Re: Recommended control points
Primare Np5 & NP30, Genki, Boazu, Ninka w. Poly. st., ICs: Linn Si & bl incl. dig, tt TD46,
Re: Recommended control points
To get more exact comparisons between control points (if they do exist in the future after your latest discovery) I would suggest to run all CP via WiFi.
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
Our experience is that "des Pudels kern" in a digital music reproduction system is distributed. Many small cores, scattered across the system where the digital signal moves.
No, I never use any external references when developing a product. It's not helpful.
Last time we made a comparison with a KDSM Katalyst was several years ago.
Re: Recommended control points
I'm not sure what you mean by this. We are running all control points via WiFi.
Then we have also tested connection with cable, to see if and in what way it differs from WiFi.
Re: Recommended control points
I think it is only related to MacBook category. When one device with cable has the same performance as another one with WiFi then I would go for that with WiFi. OTOH, to go for a device with cable this one must be better than all others with Wifi.
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
OK, now I understand.
We have compared the cable versus WiFi connection of the MacBook we're using. It used to be a clear difference, now it's very small. But the cable connection is still a tiny bit more precise.
Re: Recommended control points
Do you have some kind of ”teamwork” with Spotify when you develop your software and protocol ? Spotify develops their Spotify connect with the help of Ubiquiti.
Re: Recommended control points
Källa and Protokoll don't care which streaming service you are using, they are all treated in the same way. So when listening to Källa, the quality differences between e.g. Tidal, Quboz, Spotify, Google Music, Amazon and Apple Music are related to the quality of their respective data streams. We can't improve any of them further without improving them all.
Regarding any possible communication between us and Spotify, I'm not allowed to talk about it.
Re: Recommended control points
Are you allowed to talk about whether Spotify Connect would be a valid alternative (or not) to the protocol Källa uses?
Thanks
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
I don't know how good Spotify Connect can be. It might be really good or might be limited by some technical aspects that are out of our control.
I don't think it's possible to find this out without building it, letting Spotify certify it (which is a necessity) and then see how far it can be trimmed for optimal performance. It's an undertaking without a guarantee that it will be better than Protokoll.
Re: Recommended control points
Agree,
however, it might be the same with a new circuit for a preamp for example. Without trying you will never know if it is better or worse.
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
True, you never know for sure until you test things in practice. I test a lot of things until I usually discard them because they don't show enough promise.
Protokoll is not the only protocol we've built. There's been several NAS protocols, Bluetooth and Chromecast. Protokoll is by far the most musical and that's why we chose it.
Re: Recommended control points
Fredrik,
some older Macs do not support the protocol Källa uses.
One solution might be Airfoil which seems to use the same protocol:
https://rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/mac/
Did your team try or can your team try whether this is a musical option for older Macs to play with Källa or do exist superior alternatives to Airfoil?
Thank you
Matt
some older Macs do not support the protocol Källa uses.
One solution might be Airfoil which seems to use the same protocol:
https://rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/mac/
Did your team try or can your team try whether this is a musical option for older Macs to play with Källa or do exist superior alternatives to Airfoil?
Thank you
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
Apologies Matt, I forgot to answer this.
We have not tested Airfoil and the only way to find out whether it can perform really well is to try it in practice. This is currently not on our roadmap, as there are many small details of Protokoll that still hold the potential of being improved. So we're continuing to work with those.
All improvements that are made will be released as a new firmware. And a new firmware for Källa means it either adds functionality, sounds better, or both. None of the famous "which firmware sounds best?"-discussions will be necessary.
Upgrading Källa to a new firmware is very simple to do through its web interface. Currently we are at version 1.0.14 and it seems 100% bug free.
We have not tested Airfoil and the only way to find out whether it can perform really well is to try it in practice. This is currently not on our roadmap, as there are many small details of Protokoll that still hold the potential of being improved. So we're continuing to work with those.
All improvements that are made will be released as a new firmware. And a new firmware for Källa means it either adds functionality, sounds better, or both. None of the famous "which firmware sounds best?"-discussions will be necessary.
Upgrading Källa to a new firmware is very simple to do through its web interface. Currently we are at version 1.0.14 and it seems 100% bug free.
Re: Recommended control points
Great :-)lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-06-15 00:00 All improvements that are made will be released as a new firmware. And a new firmware for Källa means it either adds functionality, sounds better, or both. None of the famous "which firmware sounds best?"-discussions will be necessary.
Upgrading Källa to a new firmware is very simple to do through its web interface. Currently we are at version 1.0.14 and it seems 100% bug free.
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
That's very cool to hear, but no less than what I expected.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
Re: Recommended control points
Fredrik,
so IIUC even a different protocol could be implemented via a new firmware release?
Thanks
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
I would say this makes Källa future-proof even when the giant in Cupertino changes some protocols.
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
That seems quite likely. However it also seems unlikely that the 800lb Gorilla would make some big change you fear as it would obsolete all the previous equipment it ran on and likely result in multiple class-action lawsuits.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
Re: Recommended control points
Might be relevant when streaming Spotify with iPhone to Källa:
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/09/27/sp ... -fix-soon/
Matt
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/09/27/sp ... -fix-soon/
Matt
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: Recommended control points
I haven't noticed any battery drain.matthias wrote: ↑2021-09-27 21:16 Might be relevant when streaming Spotify with iPhone to Källa:
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/09/27/sp ... -fix-soon/
The list of recommended control points has been updated. We couldn't tell the iPhone 12 Pro Max and 13 Pro Max apart. iPhone 11 is for some reason still a notch above all the others.