Mixed Lejonklou and Linn Power Amps

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2014-01-18 01:00

For a short while, at least, I'm going to have a mix of Lejonklou and Linn power amps in my system, and I wanted to check the required settings to have the correct attenuation as I know this is different between the two brands.

I will be using Tundra Monos to drive the main left and right speakers, and a 3200 for the centre and rears.

I seem to recall that there is a +8db difference between them. Is the best way to handle this giving the two main speakers a -4db adjustment and the centre/rears a +4db adjustment? Have I got that the right way round? :)

Would I be better off applying +8db to the rears and centre and having no offset on the main channels?

Any experience or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-01-18 01:30

Hi Rowlandhills!

Where do you add or substract the dB's? At some places (like the aktiv cards) it makes a big difference. At others (like in the preamp), it's perfectly fine.

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-01-18 01:33

rowlandhills wrote:For a short while, at least, I'm going to have a mix of Lejonklou and Linn power amps in my system, and I wanted to check the required settings to have the correct attenuation as I know this is different between the two brands.

I will be using Tundra Monos to drive the main left and right speakers, and a 3200 for the centre and rears.

I seem to recall that there is a +8db difference between them. Is the best way to handle this giving the two main speakers a -4db adjustment and the centre/rears a +4db adjustment? Have I got that the right way round? :)

Would I be better off applying +8db to the rears and centre and having no offset on the main channels?

Any experience or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

I would leave the left & right 'flat' / 0, but I believe it's the other way around:

lejonklou wrote:Tundra needs an input signal 8 dB louder than a Linn power amp to play equally loud...

So you'd have to adjust the center & rears, driven by the Linn amps, by -8dB; not +8 (this assumes your speakers have the same sensitivity)

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2014-01-18 06:23

To complete the picture, my speakers are all Linn (242 mk2s for the main pair, 106c and 104c surrounds) and I was talking about adjusting the relative gain in the speaker setup screen on my Exotik+DA running Akurate Kontrol (original version) firmware.

I think tokenbrit probably has it right.

lunch · Post by **lunch** » 2014-01-18 10:01

I don't mean to hijack the discussion, but I have a similar question regarding mixing Tundra and a Linn sub (A226). I connect the sub via the A2200's pre outs today. If that amp was a Tundra, would I need to reduce the sub's volume by 8dB ( all other things being equal)?

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2014-01-18 10:05

lunch wrote:I don't mean to hijack the discussion, but I have a similar question regarding mixing Tundra and a Linn sub (A226). I connect the sub via the A2200's pre outs today. If that amp was a Tundra, would I need to reduce the sub's volume by 8dB ( all other things being equal)?

Yes.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-01-18 11:52

rowlandhills wrote:I was talking about adjusting the relative gain in the speaker setup screen on my Exotik+DA running Akurate Kontrol (original version) firmware.

This is the perfect place to adjust the volume, as it has no (or almost no) negative effect on sound quality. I don't think it will make any difference whether you set the Tundra-amplified channels to +8 and the others to 0 or the Tundra-amplified channels to 0 and the others to -8. Other than that the volume number on your display will differ by 8 steps.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2014-01-18 14:08

Thanks Fredrik and tokenbrit. Now have the Monos in place (and sounding very nice!) and have setup the Exotik to add +8 to the Monos, which means that the levels I'm used to from before are still valid and I can make better comparisons.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-01-23 20:53

It sounds like you have it right and, as Fredrik said, it shouldn't matter whether you boost the fronts or cut the rears and center.

I am probably opening up a whole can of worms here but I thought I'd mention that it has been my experience that setting the five speakers using pink noise and equal levels all around does not tend to give the most realistic sound with most movies. Unfortunately, like everything else in music reproduction, you have to go beyond measurements - for both SPL and distances - and fine tune by ear. I would suggest using equal levels as a starting point and then trying taking down the levels of the center and the rears a bit - say about 2 or 3dB on the center and maybe 4 to 6dB on the rears.

As with anything else we are looking for when, for example, the blend of the center and fronts gives the most tuneful performance. In my experience this also provides the most intelligible dialog. Try a few of your movies this way and see what you think.

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-02-23 18:24

I recall from earlier posts that there's a danger of pushing the Tundras to point of clipping if played too loud. Is there are recommended max volume, and is that a 'Linn volume' or a 'Lejonklou volume'?

I have my Akurate Kontrol set to a max of 80, just in case someone sits on the remote or something... I don't listen much above 60-65, sometimes a little higher for quiet movies; it really is a 'just in case' safeguard.

Is 80 (Linn) a safe figure or should it be lower? If the figure should be 80 (Lejonklou), I guess that should be 72 on a Linn preamp... Does the actual number depend on the levels / loudness of the music or soundtrack?

lunch · Post by **lunch** » 2014-02-23 19:18

I think I've read that 78 on the preamp is where clipping starts on Tundras. That should be SPL equalling 70 on the same preamp using linn power amps (correcting for differences in gain). Or at least I think so. I'll be quickly correced if i'm wrong, I believe :)

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2014-02-23 20:04

tokenbrit wrote:I recall from earlier posts that there's a danger of pushing the Tundras to point of clipping if played too loud. Is there are recommended max volume, and is that a 'Linn volume' or a 'Lejonklou volume'?

I have my Akurate Kontrol set to a max of 80, just in case someone sits on the remote or something... I don't listen much above 60-65, sometimes a little higher for quiet movies; it really is a 'just in case' safeguard.

Is 80 (Linn) a safe figure or should it be lower? If the figure should be 80 (Lejonklou), I guess that should be 72 on a Linn preamp... Does the actual number depend on the levels / loudness of the music or soundtrack?

It does depend on how demanding the music is, but generally the onset is around 75-76 on a Linn preamp. It is introduced in a gentle way, rather than sudden deterioration. Unless you enjoy very high volumes I cannot imagine it being a problem.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-02-23 22:00

lunch wrote:I think I've read that 78 on the preamp is where clipping starts on Tundras. That should be SPL equalling 70 on the same preamp using linn power amps (correcting for differences in gain). Or at least I think so. I'll be quickly correced if i'm wrong, I believe :)

Almost correct, lunch!

IF you're using a digital source with 2 Vrms nominal output (very common) AND the file/disc playing is at max volume (which they seldom are), Tundra amps will start clipping in the peaks at volume 79.

So volume 78 should not clip, regardless of music chosen. And when using an analogue source, you can often turn it up a couple of dB more, as most of them have slightly lower output than digital sources.

This limit is independent of which loudspeakers are used. It's an output voltage limit, like a hard ceiling above which the peaks in the music distorts. If the loudspeakers are a really difficult load (meaning the impedance is very low at certain frequencies), Tundra could start clipping a few dB lower than the voltage limit. But this kind of clipping will be less sudden and not present any danger to the amplifier or the speakers.

Mixed Lejonklou and Linn Power Amps

Mixed Lejonklou and Linn Power Amps

Re: Mixed Lejonklou and Linn Power Amps