83 is really loud...
In fact, if your source is a Linn DS (or CD player) and your preamp a Linn (but not an original KK), the maximum volume before your Tundra Mono starts clipping on a maximum level recording - is 78.
If using an original KK, the maximum level is 88.
But the above is only when the file is on maximum level. And for some reason, I find that many files are below maximum. In which case a few steps more is possible before clipping.
Tundra mono
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I am using a ’current spec' KK i.e the same spec as you would get if you were ordering one today. As you suggest, 83 with my current system is the same volume as 75 with the four Twins I was using. One of the big differences is the massive increase in the dynamiks of the music that the Monos have brought.
I have ordered two more sets of Monos which will finish the system off. When I have the 8 monos, I will for the first time since I started with my first Linn system 33 years ago, reached an 'end' point. There will be nothing I can do to upgrade the system. The only option would be to replace the eight Monos with Solos but I am not convinced from the comparisons I have heard that it would be significantly better - it would look a lot better, but at a huge cost.
In time no doubt I would expect it to be possible to upgrade (rather than replace) the individual components - Linn for the KK and KDS, and Fredrik for the Monos.
I have ordered two more sets of Monos which will finish the system off. When I have the 8 monos, I will for the first time since I started with my first Linn system 33 years ago, reached an 'end' point. There will be nothing I can do to upgrade the system. The only option would be to replace the eight Monos with Solos but I am not convinced from the comparisons I have heard that it would be significantly better - it would look a lot better, but at a huge cost.
In time no doubt I would expect it to be possible to upgrade (rather than replace) the individual components - Linn for the KK and KDS, and Fredrik for the Monos.
ThomasOK wrote:Flatcoat, are you running an original KK or a KK/1 (or 2)? I used to run my KK at 83 or 84 all the time and that was with Linn amps and speakers or my ATCs (which seem to have a similar sensitivity). But with the KK/1 and 2 that has dropped to 73 or 74. Of course 83 with Lejonklou amps is equivalent to 75 with Linn amps so we're still in the same range of volume (and I probably have a smaller room). With the right music it can certainly sound great at realistic levels!
Anyway, thanks for the nice report on the Monos.
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Music Lover
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Thanks god most recordings are well below 0dB. Death Magnetic is a great album (Metallica) but it has just a few dB's dynamic range.lejonklou wrote: And for some reason, I find that many files are below maximum.
LOUD is how I describe that record. Really loud.
When I play it I have to decrease the volume 5-10 steps.
And an active 350 system - without passive filter/full range signals/power sucking bass signal --> good ability to play really loud.
It's all about musical understanding!
No, it's not a good thing. It's BAD!Music Lover wrote:Thanks god most recordings are well below 0dB.lejonklou wrote: And for some reason, I find that many files are below maximum.
What I am saying is that the loudest peak in a recording (or on an album) should preferably be at 0 dB. That's when all of the bits are 1 and none is 0 in the digital signal. That way, the entire dynamic range of the equipment is used.
I am not saying that the music should be compressed, so that the level is always around 0 dB. That's stupid.
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Rufus McDufus
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Yes, unfortunately the British Pound has gotten weak lately. The recommended prices in £ therefore had to be adjusted. Those of you who are waiting for Tundra's already ordered are not affected, of course.Rufus McDufus wrote:Sure has - poor exchange rate at the moment between GBP and SEK :(Ozzzy189 wrote:Tundra now £3000. Is it me, or has it gone up a couple of hundred quid?
Just wondering.
:-)
Cheers.
In other European currencies, the recommended price is unchanged.
With today's exchange rates, they are very close to one another:
SEK 28 800
€ 3 400
£ 3 000
Regarding prices in North America, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia, you need to contact the local distributor/retailer. To my knowledge, there hasn't been any changes to prices there.
For the last week or so I have been using 8 monos to drive my 350s. At this pont intime it represents an 'end point' for my system - there are no more upgrades possible at present. All I can say is that the sound it is producing is 'wow'. I have never heard anything that beats what I have now. Fredrik has produced something very special with the Tundra Mono.
Apologies for the delay, but now I have finally added a Tundra Mono page to the website!
In English: http://www.lejonklou.com/?page=110
In Swedish: http://www.lejonklou.com/?page=109
If you notice anything odd, I'd appreciate if you let me know. Thanks in advance!
In English: http://www.lejonklou.com/?page=110
In Swedish: http://www.lejonklou.com/?page=109
If you notice anything odd, I'd appreciate if you let me know. Thanks in advance!
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Ozzzy189
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Listening to the monos..... They've taken a few hours to settle and warm up, but my immediate thought after an admittedly shortish time with them is 'effortless'. It's like there's nothing there, just this amazingly fantastic music to listen to.
Further thoughts, musings and possibly another review for Chris and fredrik after a few days.
Nice work fredrik, these are very special, I just hope I still love the stereo version as much after my affair with the twins! Lol
Further thoughts, musings and possibly another review for Chris and fredrik after a few days.
Nice work fredrik, these are very special, I just hope I still love the stereo version as much after my affair with the twins! Lol
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Cool Ozzy!
Did you mean "affair with the Mono's" or "affair with the Twins"?
I am very much looking forward to your impressions. I find it interesting to compare two products from the same manufacturer, where one product is supposed to be the better and more expensive version of the other. It gives me an impression of what the company regards as quality, what 'better' and 'worse' means to them.
Did you mean "affair with the Mono's" or "affair with the Twins"?
I am very much looking forward to your impressions. I find it interesting to compare two products from the same manufacturer, where one product is supposed to be the better and more expensive version of the other. It gives me an impression of what the company regards as quality, what 'better' and 'worse' means to them.
I've been living with Tundra Mono for almost two weeks now. They replaced my prototype Tundra 1.1 (which by the way is for sale). My system consists of Qnap TS119P+ - ADS/0/D - Kikkin - Tundra - Majik 109.
There is absolutely no doubt that Mono outperforms the Stereo version of Tundra by a wide margin. When my wife and I initially sat down to listen to the Monos we were just spellbound. I believe that I was playing Nina Simone and Norah Jones and the emotion communicated was massively stronger than with the Stereo Tundra.
A funny thing is that this effect doesn’t seem to apply to all our records. Quite a few are much better, some are subtly better and some are actually pretty much the same. I have a feeling that improvement might be bigger in the lower frequencies so maybe that has something to do with it? If that’s the case, I can imagine that a bigger speaker would be even better to demonstrate the difference. Another thing is that my front end obviously should be a bit better before making any strong judgments. But I’m really happy with the system as it sounds today – all I need is a LSNAS and a new preamplifier with a case matching my power amplifiers.
peace out
There is absolutely no doubt that Mono outperforms the Stereo version of Tundra by a wide margin. When my wife and I initially sat down to listen to the Monos we were just spellbound. I believe that I was playing Nina Simone and Norah Jones and the emotion communicated was massively stronger than with the Stereo Tundra.
A funny thing is that this effect doesn’t seem to apply to all our records. Quite a few are much better, some are subtly better and some are actually pretty much the same. I have a feeling that improvement might be bigger in the lower frequencies so maybe that has something to do with it? If that’s the case, I can imagine that a bigger speaker would be even better to demonstrate the difference. Another thing is that my front end obviously should be a bit better before making any strong judgments. But I’m really happy with the system as it sounds today – all I need is a LSNAS and a new preamplifier with a case matching my power amplifiers.
peace out
Last edited by Azazello on 2013-06-18 08:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Music Lover
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This is not unusual at all when upgrading the playback part of the system.Azazello wrote:A funny thing is that this effect doesn’t seem to apply to all our records. Quite a few are much better, some are subtly better and some are actually pretty much the same.
Source and control (Linn terminology) deliver more of a fundamental improvement on all records according to my experience.
It's all about musical understanding!
Like Azazello, I am very impressed with the Tundra Monos (and the 1.2 as well but I'll write about that separately). I haven't written anything about them so far because of the difficulty I've had in really listening to them. First off, we just moved on April 2nd to a completely new store a short distance from where Overture Audio has been for 23+ years (you can see a fair bit about the process on our facebook page). We designed the new space and built all the internal structure. Overall we are very happy with the layout and look of the space although much work remains to be done. However, our biggest problem is that the rooms are currently quite echo ridden. This something we will soon rectify but we are still investigating the best ways to deal with it. Because of this it is really quite difficult to evaluate anything in the store at this level of performance.
However, it is also difficult to evaluate things at home as my system uses active big ATC speakers. So to listen here I have to borrow some passive speakers from the store and set them up in the same room as the ATCs (as I'm not going to move these 143 lb. speakers, even if I did have somewhere else to put them). Even that presents a problem as we sold our A242s in anticipation of the Akubariks and have had little in the way of practical, high-performance speakers to borrow. (I'm not going to even try to haul home the $30,000, 180 lb. each Vienna Musics so the A212s are about the upper limit in what we currently have available.)
So this is really more of an initial review that I will update when I have the ability to do a more in-depth listen to them. I did some listening at the store with the Vienna Kiss speakers and more listening at home with a pair of Spendor BC-1s. Listening to the BC-1s was interesting as it was my first British speaker and I was quite fond of them back in the day (which would be the mid-70s). But I was surprised how far things have come and the limitations of them compared to what I am used to now. After getting used to them I played the Tundra Stereo v1.1, the v1.2 and the Monos.
I have to say that I am extremely happy with the Monos. They are very musical and enjoyable. I definitely heard the sense of effortlessness that others have mentioned as the music just seems to flow out easily with no sense of strain. One place I really noticed it was with an old Jethro Tull album "Living in the Past". This was a standard, lightweight vinyl pressing I purchased when it first came out. When I listened to "Witch's Promise" on the v1.1 I noticed a harshness to Ian Anderson's voice on some notes that I chalked up to the pressing. I listened to it again on the v1.2 and it was reduced a bit. But then I put it on the Monos and the harshness in the voice was just gone - I couldn't hear it even when I listened for it! Instead I just heard his voice reproduced beautifully with vocal inflections I hadn't noticed before and a greater sense of dynamics. This greater sense of dynamics held through all my listening and throughout the whole musical spectrum: drums sounded more live and vivid and all instruments sounded more like what I expect them to sound like. But even bigger was the way the music grabs you - I think the best word is riveting. You get caught up in the emotional communication of he music and you just don't want to stop listening. I heard the same thing at the store with different music, just a very involving portrayal of the music and I believe it was even more-so than our non-Dynamiked Solos. The Monos just bring music to life in a way I don't hear in other amplifiers. As mentioned I need to listen more with more speakers but I think the Tundra Monos just may be the best amplifiers I have ever heard.
This doesn't surprise me as even the v1.1 was very close to the non-D Solos when we listened previously and certainly better than the TwinC/D. This brings up an interesting question that Fredrik had and might have also answered. He wondered why we (as several here came to the same conclusion) found the Tundra 1.1 better than the Twin and close to the Solos when the general consensus in the UK and Europe seems to be that the Stereo 1.2 is close to a Twin/D but maybe not quite as good and the Monos are also close to Solo/Ds but maybe not quite as musical. I had the same question myself. But when Fredrik had one of my 1.1s back for the 1.2 upgrade he found something very interesting. After the upgrade when he was listening to make sure it sounded as it should he noticed that it sounded good, REALLY good = better, in fact, than it had any right to sound since it had to go through a stepdown transformer to match the 120 Volts required input. This made Fredrik wonder if maybe the switch-mode power supplies in the Tundras actually sound better at 120 Volts? When he mentioned this to me it raised another interesting thought. I know that the Linn electronics are more musical at 240 Volts (which is why my main system is running on 240 Volts). So if the Tundra actually sounds better at 120 Volts (which is still only a hypothesis) and the Linn amps sound worse at 120 Volts it could certainly account for a reversal in their relative musical ranking. Something that may have to be investigated further but certainly an interesting possibility. If so then we in the US get the musical advantage for a change!
Anyway, when I get time I will do some more in-depth listening with a few different speakers and will make an additional report. However, it is already quite obvious that Fredrik has created some exceedingly musical amplifiers for very reasonable money. Congratulations and very well done!
However, it is also difficult to evaluate things at home as my system uses active big ATC speakers. So to listen here I have to borrow some passive speakers from the store and set them up in the same room as the ATCs (as I'm not going to move these 143 lb. speakers, even if I did have somewhere else to put them). Even that presents a problem as we sold our A242s in anticipation of the Akubariks and have had little in the way of practical, high-performance speakers to borrow. (I'm not going to even try to haul home the $30,000, 180 lb. each Vienna Musics so the A212s are about the upper limit in what we currently have available.)
So this is really more of an initial review that I will update when I have the ability to do a more in-depth listen to them. I did some listening at the store with the Vienna Kiss speakers and more listening at home with a pair of Spendor BC-1s. Listening to the BC-1s was interesting as it was my first British speaker and I was quite fond of them back in the day (which would be the mid-70s). But I was surprised how far things have come and the limitations of them compared to what I am used to now. After getting used to them I played the Tundra Stereo v1.1, the v1.2 and the Monos.
I have to say that I am extremely happy with the Monos. They are very musical and enjoyable. I definitely heard the sense of effortlessness that others have mentioned as the music just seems to flow out easily with no sense of strain. One place I really noticed it was with an old Jethro Tull album "Living in the Past". This was a standard, lightweight vinyl pressing I purchased when it first came out. When I listened to "Witch's Promise" on the v1.1 I noticed a harshness to Ian Anderson's voice on some notes that I chalked up to the pressing. I listened to it again on the v1.2 and it was reduced a bit. But then I put it on the Monos and the harshness in the voice was just gone - I couldn't hear it even when I listened for it! Instead I just heard his voice reproduced beautifully with vocal inflections I hadn't noticed before and a greater sense of dynamics. This greater sense of dynamics held through all my listening and throughout the whole musical spectrum: drums sounded more live and vivid and all instruments sounded more like what I expect them to sound like. But even bigger was the way the music grabs you - I think the best word is riveting. You get caught up in the emotional communication of he music and you just don't want to stop listening. I heard the same thing at the store with different music, just a very involving portrayal of the music and I believe it was even more-so than our non-Dynamiked Solos. The Monos just bring music to life in a way I don't hear in other amplifiers. As mentioned I need to listen more with more speakers but I think the Tundra Monos just may be the best amplifiers I have ever heard.
This doesn't surprise me as even the v1.1 was very close to the non-D Solos when we listened previously and certainly better than the TwinC/D. This brings up an interesting question that Fredrik had and might have also answered. He wondered why we (as several here came to the same conclusion) found the Tundra 1.1 better than the Twin and close to the Solos when the general consensus in the UK and Europe seems to be that the Stereo 1.2 is close to a Twin/D but maybe not quite as good and the Monos are also close to Solo/Ds but maybe not quite as musical. I had the same question myself. But when Fredrik had one of my 1.1s back for the 1.2 upgrade he found something very interesting. After the upgrade when he was listening to make sure it sounded as it should he noticed that it sounded good, REALLY good = better, in fact, than it had any right to sound since it had to go through a stepdown transformer to match the 120 Volts required input. This made Fredrik wonder if maybe the switch-mode power supplies in the Tundras actually sound better at 120 Volts? When he mentioned this to me it raised another interesting thought. I know that the Linn electronics are more musical at 240 Volts (which is why my main system is running on 240 Volts). So if the Tundra actually sounds better at 120 Volts (which is still only a hypothesis) and the Linn amps sound worse at 120 Volts it could certainly account for a reversal in their relative musical ranking. Something that may have to be investigated further but certainly an interesting possibility. If so then we in the US get the musical advantage for a change!
Anyway, when I get time I will do some more in-depth listening with a few different speakers and will make an additional report. However, it is already quite obvious that Fredrik has created some exceedingly musical amplifiers for very reasonable money. Congratulations and very well done!
Lejonklou Tundra Mono / stereo
I understand the price is currently set at GBP 2750.
Is the warranty period of the Tundra amps also 5 years, similar as Linn amps?
Is the warranty period of the Tundra amps also 5 years, similar as Linn amps?
Interesting if it did happen that 120v favours Tundra, while Linn electronics do better at 240v - mixed system might need separate power strips to perform optimally.
I believe Lejonklou amps are set to 120 or to 240 as required rather than auto sensing - is that 'reversible' such that a Tundra set for 240 could be reset for 120 with no resulting difference to one that had been set to 120 from the beginning?
I believe Lejonklou amps are set to 120 or to 240 as required rather than auto sensing - is that 'reversible' such that a Tundra set for 240 could be reset for 120 with no resulting difference to one that had been set to 120 from the beginning?